Recap: NO MABUSHI! Product Marketing with a Laser & Tim C. Johnson

Please retweet: 8/22 Recap: NO MABUSHI! Product Marketing w/a Laser  w/ @johnsontc http://bit.ly/n6eXxH #prodmrktg #prodmgmt #prodmgmttalk

At our most recent, Aug 22 Global Product Management Talk on Twitter, Tim C. Johnson returned (after laser surgery) to lead us in a discussion to identify and remove MABUSHI.  Here is an edited recap - use this as a jumping off point to blog your insights and responses.

INTROLink resources for today's talk http://pack.li/21

full transcript: http://slidesha.re/pD63wO

Please welcome @johnsontc Tim C. Johnson, Product Marketing Expert for Discussion On Surgically Removing MABUSHI has 20+ years of sales and marketing experience in software ranging from end-user applications to development tools.

MABUSHI is an Israeli's term (not nice one) for get to the point, don't waste time!

MENTIONED DURING TALK:

• SIPOC Analysis: SIPOC is a six sigma tool - engineering approach to pain & probs. SIPOC maps Suppliers, inputs, process, outputs, customers. 
• Product Management as therapy, and how it guides the questions we ask customers: http://t.co/hj1adn6
• What is buying facilitation http://t.co/unVrEuT 
• David Meerman Scott gobbly-gook analyzer http://t.co/ahydGD8
• Microsoft redesigns the iPod package. Oldie but goodie.  http://t.co/jRU5wcF
• Bull Fighter http://t.co/whLGpRl

Q1 What are the two must-ask questions in your PMM toolkit?

saeedwkhan A1 -- Who and Why? :-)

johnsontc Agree. Its more who cares & why is it important?

johnsontc 'Who is being impacted and how?. How is it impacting them personally & how impacting the business?'

Jim_Holland A1 - I like "Why and How" oriented questions for #prodmktg 

MNOProductMan  A1 - Is this what they need or want?

nickcoster A1) who is it for, and what problem does it solve?

saeedwkhan A1 Tim says example is simply asking a person how they're compensated & how they're doing against metrics

johnsontc A1 - add on "and why not?" questions need to draw people out

jidoctor seems the must-ask ?s are situation dependent, but standard would include who, what, why, why not

bdoctor A1 when presented with features - the question is “so what” to get at benefits

johnsontc if you don’t understand whats broke or how its affecting them (cust or biz) then you’ll have difficult talk

johnsontc - ask these questions when you r developing personas, doing sales calls, presentations

jidoctor q1: need more context to better respond to this ?; all makes sense but motivation/compensation is not always relevant

brainmates More an approach to understanding value RT @saeedwkhan: re: A1: Can you clarify the question a bit? Its very general question 

johnsontc these questions drive the company to understand if they are doing a good job meeting their metrics

johnsontc When you’re trying to understand if you can help customer – if you understand their metrics – can better present your solution

johnsontc Talk into the pain point of the customer/biz

clivelam A1: 2 helpful questions: "What do you want to do?" and "Why do you want to do it?" 

rcauvin A1: Before pain point comes context - "what do you do each day", and "why are you doing it"

saeedwkhan For Q1 I tend to go into psychotherapy mode -- .tell me about your problems. What are your goals? What keeps you up at night?

johnsontc "Why r u doing it?" question gets into measurement and “who benefits from it”

saeedwkhan Q1 - objective is to get them talking so I can sit back and listen and direct the conversation

rcauvin @saeedwkhan #prodmgmt interviews are indeed like therapy. Set context initially; not just, "Tell me about your problems."

rcauvin More on #prodmgmt as therapy, and how it guides the questions we ask customers: http://t.co/hj1adn6

johnsontc We’re going between Q1 & Q2 – overall idea of trying to get to heart of what matters, what is valuable to them

johnsontc Based on what they tell you, ask questions like “who calls you when something goes wrong”

Q2 What techniques do you use to understand the value chain?

johnsontc A2: Start with who calls u when something goes wrong - insight on how the rest of the biz is affected

johnsontc A2: Outside of direct cust interaction – keep up on disaster stories you read in IT press to ask if relevant

rcauvin A1/A2: Explore how the prospect currently manages or works around relevant problems they face.

johnsontc PM uses it for product development and PMM uses it for developing messages

MNOProductMan  A2 - 1. Empathy 2. SIPOC's analysis to work out where they are in the E2E value chain-pain origin is normally external to them

johnsontc disagrees RT @MNOProductMan: E2E value chain-pain origin normally impacts them 

MNOProductMan SIPOC is a six sigma tool - engineering approach to pain & probs. SIPOC maps Suppliers, inputs, process, outputs, customers. 

bdoctor Sry, I'm lost. Whats the connection between Mabushi and value chain?

johnsontc @bdoctor When u understand the value chain you are not going to talk about the shiny red thingy

bdoctor Umm is thingy a tech term or Aussie?

cindyfsolomon Definitely tech term! But everything is a “thingy” to the Aussies!

Q3 When is your sales team a customer/persona and when are they a partner?

johnsontc these are sophisticated questions that must be solved

johnsontc From an IT perspective, IT is responsible for entire chain for info from suppliers – processes correct/ outputs to end

jidoctor imho, your sales team is a cust in respect that they absorb info, not a persona and not a partner

brainmates @MNOProductMan Thanks for definition of SIPOC. IT people are responsible for the infrastructure that keeps value chain running

jidoctor infrastructure to support value chain is not necessarily a partner

jidoctor & they aren't a persona since they are neither a user nor a buyer 

saeedwkhan A3 -- Sales teams map to personae. In smaller companies they can be partners. Need to maintain product/channel fit.

johnsontc agree RT @saeedwkhan: Sales teams map to personae. Smaller companies they can be partners

jidoctor remember, you are talking about partner as sales defines partner

johnsontc @jidoctor sales are a buyer – they have to agree that what you are saying is important & correct

jidoctor they are not buying your solution, only a customer who "buys" the info to sell the solution

johnsontc Exactly! RT @jidoctor: are not buying your solution, only a customer who “buys” the info to sell the solution

johnsontc Meta point – sales is NOT an adversary

clivelam A3: sales are more like an ear piece

saeedwkhan @jidoctor but Sales teams have needs, wants, objectives, goals, influencers etc. Perfect for personae

jidoctor if u r talking about launch material, then sales teams would b a persona; but if you are talking about urlaunch itself, no

jidoctor but, totally agree w/ can't ignore them, they are 2 imp

liz_blink @jidoctor can your sales team be a blocker to your customer? 

jidoctor yes @liz_blink, sales CAN, and often does, block access/info to customers

liz_blink @jidoctor is that because we too often leave them out of the process?

jidoctor @liz_blink, imho, yes, but we do that because we don't know HOW to include them properly 

brainmates This is when there is an adversarial relationship RT@jidoctor: yes sales CAN, and oftend does, block access/info to customers 

johnsontc No right answer. Sales is ultimately on your side – same logo on their biz card

jidoctor adversial relationship is non-productive: avoid at all costs!

jidoctor (make them a higher level on the biz card & they respond even well!)

brainmates I always include to avoid pain RT @liz_blink: @jidoctoris that because we too often leave them out of the process?

Q4 What makes your sales tools REALLY effective and how do you measure that?

johnsontc A measure of its bad is sales team calling MABUSHI on you!

saeedwkhan A4 - Sales tool must be created w/ consumer in mind & map to their buying process. Must understand info supply chain

saeedwkhan A4 -- FYI...consumer in last tweet is consumer of the tools/info and not general economic consumer. :-)

johnsontc to @jidoctor A4 field test it before you role it out to everyone – so they have some input

johnsontc to @saeedwkhan Yes, and Also must use their language and their metrics

jidoctor A4: agree w/ @saeedwkhan, sales tools must map to cust needs & language, not "sales" needs

johnsontc must use their language & metrics applies to both internal & external consumer

jidoctor a4: but be careful re: sales calling MABUSHI, it may not be, but since it wasn't designed for them they think it is

brainmates How? RT @johnsontc says "must use their language & metrics applies to both internal & external consumer"

liz_blink A4 @jidoctor @saeedwkhan but sales needs and customer needs should not be that far apart!

jidoctor examples exist when sales calls MABUSHI simply because they were left out of the process, or their suggestions were not used 

jidoctor @liz_blink sales needs & customer needs ARE designed to be different! 

brainmates Acc @johnsontc We need supporting docs to show how we can help sales make more sales.

jidoctor @liz_blink customer needs to be shown sol'n, sales needs to understand what the customer needs - they are different

brainmates But sales want more sales. If customer needs r met so r sales needs.  @jidoctor @liz_blink 

liz_blink Too true RT @Brainmates sugg to not do that! @jidoctorsales calls MABUSHI simply because they were left out of the process

MNOProductMan  A4 Sales attention span is short, sales are simple folk. Tools need to be simple & relevant to them. Sales need to trust tools

johnsontc Sales needs to understand language that the customer uses.

brainmates Tools need to work. RT @MNOProductMan Sales need to trust tools

Q5 What self-checks do you use to eliminate MABUSHI?

rcauvin @jidoctor Before customer can consider solution, must be helped to navigate change management issues:  http://t.co/unVrEuT 

jidoctor sales needs to not only understand cust language, but SPEAK cust language 

bdoctor A5) best tool - Bull Fighter http://t.co/whLGpRl

johnsontc A5 I run it past my spouse – if she can’t figure it out, then I know I’ve failed

brainmates WOW. That would be great.  That is what #prodmkgt is for RT @jidoctor: sales needs to not only understand cust language, but SPEAK cust language

ErikaLAndersen Can this be taught? RT @jidoctor: sales needs to not only understand cust language, but SPEAK cust language

Cindyfsolomon Eliminate jargon!

jidoctor @brainmates: THAT is the responsibility of #prodmktg; to help sales understand & speak the cust lang so WITH them, not AT them 

johnsontc David Meerman Scott has a gobbly-gook analyzer

bdoctor the @dmscott reference is http://t.co/ahydGD8

Cindyfsolomon results of this week’s press release put through @dmscott analyzerhttp://bit.ly/n8xa9u

brainmates Another test of Mabushi - if you get crickets from your audience

jidoctor “crickets” australian or american technical term? 

brainmates Aussie terms = crickets, thingy 

rcauvin A5: Examine communication & whether it mentions "features" instead of problems & what the user accomplishes.

liz_blink Or connection to ensuring you engage all! "@brainmates: "Bu..s..t" RT @liz_blink: maybe I don't understand Mabushi!

johnsontc Another definition of MABUSHI “hogwash” English term is “codswallop” or simply “rubbish”

jidoctor @johnsontc, "hogwash" is not what you call it on your blog post that defines it. nor is rubbish the word you use

brainmates "Bu..s..t" RT @liz_blink: @cindyfsolomon @johnsontcmaybe I dont understand Mabushi! 

Cindyfsolomon MABUSHI (not actually an Israeli term!) is more politically correct than what comes out of your horse’s back end

Q6 What are your favorite examples of bad product marketing?

       johnsontc  A6 too numerous to mention

jidoctor A6: too many to share & most would get me in trouble! but, none that I created ;-) 

johnsontc anything that says leading provider of... always smells of mabushi. words such quickly, easily, next generation - examples of mabushi 

cindyfsolomon A6: My old school favorites: “state of the art”, “user friendly” “cutting edge” “world class” and these days “lean agile” “customer driven” “lower cost of ownership”

ErikaLAndersen Microsoft redesigns the iPod package. Oldie but goodie.  http://t.co/jRU5wcF 

jidoctor Q6: bad if your doc uses: faster, easier, more productive or reliable, scalable, stronger performance...used 95% of time!

JohnsonTC Any properly implemented current tech will always perform better than old, “So What!”

brainmates When you write Mabushi terms - Got to ask yourself 'so what?' Get to the point. What parts of the biz is improved by the stuff 

rcauvin @cindyfsolomon Ha! Funny when company touts their use of agile or lean methods. Irrelevant to customers.

schmediad Add tailored to your needs RT @brainmates:@johnsontc says anything that says leading provider of. always smells of mabushi

brainmates @schmediad Yes. 'Tailored' has to be a Mabushi word

liz_blink Ta Light bulb moment! "@brainmates Mabushi got to ask yourself 'so what?' Get to the point. What parts of biz is improved

brainmates Too funny.. Going to check out the brainmates website to see if we use any Mabushi words!

prodmgmttalk Please join us again @JohnsonTC to slice deeper – he could go into techniques next time

JohnsonTC: Thanks to everyone. Great fun

bdoctor: thanks @johnsontc, @brainmates & @cindyfsolomon for another great #prodmgmttalk 

rcauvin Really appreciate @cindyfsolomon & @brainmates for bridging the gap between product managers around the world.

Thank you to all the participants! Join us next week on Aug 29 for "What Product Managers must learn from Brand Managers to Succeed w/ @Mack_McCoy "  

Please retweet: 8/22 Recap: NO MABUSHI! Product Marketing w/a Laser  w/ @johnsontc http://bit.ly/n6eXxH #prodmrktg #prodmgmt #prodmgmttalk


Global Product Management Talk^TM is a weekly mini-product camp Socratic discussion (on Twitter) of pre-posted questions (on Facebook) with live audio of thought leader and co-hosts commenting (on Blogtalkradio).